Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Nick's native timber 00

Right in regards to the bog oak density, I have calculated it to be around 1.005 so I guess somewhere between rosewood and ebony.

Still need to get the Alpine spruce soundboard an bracing material, does anyone have any recommended suppliers, I was thinking of going with Madinter , as their prices seem reasonable.

Don't suppose you know of any supplier for quartered laburnum?

wtholmwood - Thanks for the recommendation, though i'm looking for something slightly larger and am quite interested in the METABO BAS317G which has more power and a greater cutting depth. I would ideally like to be able to resaw fret boards veneers etc and possibly 3 piece backs / sides etc though at 1.25 hp it may not be quite up to the task but we shall see...

Bob - Have pm'd

Author:	ntredwell [ Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:53 am ]
Post subject:	Nick's native timber 00
Well here goes with my first acoustic build, I have previously built a Thinline Telecaster electric, though this will be my first acoustic build. My plan is to use all native (UK) timbers as far as possible, and those that I cant source home grown will be sourced as close as possible and just to make things more complicated, the build will be undertaken as much as possible with hand tools other than possibly some re-sawing. So far my plan is as follows. Model - 00 based on the Grellier plan http://www.grellier.fr/plans/Acoustic_guitar_00/Acoustic_guitar_00_en.pdf Back & Sides - English Cherry Soundboard - European (Alpine) Spruce - Hope fully this is the only part i wont be able to source locally. Bracing - European Spruce Neck - English Sycamore Fretboard - Bog Oak Bridge - Bog Oak Binding - English Walnut (though this may change) Rosette - not sure yet but possible Cherry I already have most of the materials (will post some photos later) as have been planning this build for a few months and hope to get started by the end of the month once I have finished building my new workshop which is currently in the final stages and will hopefully be nearly complete after this weekend. Crikey lots to do, work really does get in the way! Nick

Author:	ntredwell [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Looks like I need to start making some progress if I want to keep up with the pack! Some of you are already steaming ahead. Unfortunately, I don't think i will be able to get much done on the actual build until the end of Jan / early Feb, but will hopefully get started with jigs etc. But for now, here are a few woody pictures. English Cherry Back and Sides. Sycamore for the neck. 3500 year old Bog Oak for fretboard and bridge, i'm really interested in trying this out, its really hard, and has some nice subtle figuring. Thought I would also post a picture of the design im planning, this is based around the Grellier 00 plan, though I have increased the nut width to 45mm and I have also converted to a slot head. Question, When increasing the nut width, i have also changed the bridge hold placements sightly to go in line, and also the fretboard width. is there any other aspects I need to revise?.

Author:	PeterF [ Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Nice wood! With fretboards and bridge alignments, etc, a really useful free program is available called G-thang http://liutaiomottola.com/formulae/gthang.htm. It's mainly for designing your own body shapes, but you can also input the fretboard and scale length data, and it exports it all to a dxf file which you can print full size. If you don't have CAD software to print with, you can get a good one here: http://www.3ds.com/products/draftsight/overview/

Author:	ntredwell [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
PeterF thanks I'll have a look at gthang sounds like it could be helpful. Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

Author:	DennisK [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Very cool! Can you measure the density on that bog oak? And how's the tap tone? And where did you get it? I was thinking about buying a piece for the bridge on my Black Rose guitar, since I want a black bridge, but African blackwood is a bit heavy, ebony heavy and high damping, and Brazilian rosewood curses it with CITES restrictions. Plus that's just awesome bringing ancient trees back to life through music Actually, that would be a perfect bridge wood for my planned ancient kauri guitar, too... As for your changes... that should do it. Changing the nut width also changes the overall neck profile, so you can't use any templates the plan may have come with. Also, the neck width at body joint is a pretty subjective thing, so the amount you increase there doesn't necessarily have to be simply maintaining the plan's specified string-to-FB-edge distance... although it's certainly not a bad idea to maintain it, if you're not sure what your preference is yet. Oh, and a slotted headstock doesn't have to be angled back as steeply as a solid one, since the rollers are offset down from the surface of the headstock. But I don't think it really hurts anything to angle it back farther than necessary either.

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Author:	Ebony [ Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
That's a lovely piece of Cherry. A great first wood to start with, bends nicely.

Author:	ntredwell [ Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
DennisK not sure about the density and tap tone, yet, I will get it out late and takes look, and recommendations on calculating density? I also like the idea that it is using something ancient in the build and the wood was found within 50 mile of my house. I bought the fretboard blank on eBay, and the bridge blank from a furniture maker at a woodland show. I'll dig out the sellers details and pm them over. Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

Author:	ntredwell [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Right in regards to the bog oak density, I have calculated it to be around 1.005 so I guess somewhere between rosewood and ebony. On the build front, I have made the body template and the mild has been glued up. Pictures to follow. Still need to get the Alpine spruce soundboard an bracing material, does anyone have any recommended suppliers, I was thinking of going with Madinter , as their prices seem reasonable. Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

Author:	PeterF [ Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
I have been looking at this site for a while and they seem to have some really good stuff. I haven't bought from them, so can't guarantee it, but it has pictures of every set and you can choose which you want. http://www.best-eurospruce.com/5.html Here's their product gallery: https://picasaweb.google.com/eurospruce

Author:	DennisK [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
ntredwell wrote: Right in regards to the bog oak density, I have calculated it to be around 1.005 so I guess somewhere between rosewood and ebony. Wow, that's quite heavy for oak! I guess the amount of minerals absorbed to darken it that much actually adds a lot of weight. I don't know if I can buy stuff from ebay UK, so I guess I'll just have to watch the local ebay for good pieces. Although at that weight, I'm not sure if there'd be much tonal advantage over ebony... still better than African blackwood, but Brazilian would probably be my best bet for the rosewood topped guitar. Quote: Still need to get the Alpine spruce soundboard an bracing material, does anyone have any recommended suppliers, I was thinking of going with Madinter , as their prices seem reasonable. I've heard good things about these guys for spruce http://www.tonewood.ch/guitar.html. I haven't bought from them myself though, as I'm more of a redwood fan, and shipping would probably be too expensive unless buying a lot. Madinter should be good too though.

Author:	PeterF [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Thanks for that link Dennis. I hadn't heard about that one before and the prices look good. Just don't buy the lower grade tops from Touchstone Tonewood. I got one of them for my last guitar and it was a long way off quarter - almost 45° in places. Sounded pretty good though in the end.

Author:	ntredwell [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
DennisK thanks for the link, looks promising I'll give them an email. Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

Author:	Mattia Valente [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
I hear a lot of great things about Timberline (UK) and I've got personal great experiences with Dave Dyke (Luthiers Supplies); both know their stuff and know their tone wood. I get most of my back/sides from Spain (because it's cheap and I can afford to wait a few years before using them) and hand-select tops in Italy (Rivolta) from time to time.

Author:	Bob Matthews [ Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Interesting build Nick, it will be great to see it develop. I bought half a dozen bog oak fretboard blanks from Bob Smith at Timberline http://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/ they are perfectly quarter sawn and showing masses of medullary rays, so can't wait to do a native build myself. The bog oak comes from a guy called Hamish Low (he sometimes works at Timberline when Bob Smith is away foraging). Check out his website http://www.adamsonandlow.com/bog_oak/ lots of info there and some rather gorgeous planks for sale. Bob

Author:	ntredwell [ Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
I was lucky to be able to spend the whole weekend in my workshop, and have at long last managed to get moving with my build. I also have Friday afternoon off, in order to take delivery of a new toy! Spent most of Friday afternoon setting it up and tuning things, still requires some refinement and a better blade, but I really happy with it so far. I had previously glued up the back, so spent time with my trusty No. 5 1/2 and a cabinet scraper and brought the thickness down to nearly 2.5mm, will finish taking these down to 2.5 with a sanding bar. Made up the following to allow me to accurately thickness the plates, just a dial gauge some plywood, but works really well, especially when you think to buy an off the shelf thickness gauge you are looking well over £100 and this cost about £12! Next I cut and glued up the scarf joint, turns out that my sycamore plank that im using for the neck blank has some nice flaming to it, not bad for £11 (bought from a local National Trust wood fair where they were selling timber cut from the estate) for the whole plank easilly enough for at least 4 necks. Clamps removed and scarf cleaned up. Neck block glued up I also managed to start work on my bending iron, this is going to be a solid lump of aluminium, bored out to allow a 9mm cartridge heater to be installed, and then controlled via a 600watt dimmer. So far have managed to nearly (about 15mm to go but need to get a longer drill bit!) finish boring out the hole for the element. I’m really happy with progress so far, and no major hiccups (Yet!). Though I am jealous of everyone who has a thickness sander, I am trying to work out if I can realistically fit one in for future builds.

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Author:	ntredwell [ Sat Jan 26, 2013 3:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Have contacted varying suppliers, unfortunately although their wood prices are good, tonewood.ch their shipping costs are almost as much again this would be fine if I was able to buy multiple tops, but for one top and a little bracing it seemed excessive. I wish that was not the case, as the owners were really helpful and responded to all my emails within minutes. Luckily I put a call in to David Duke 's and they can sort me out all I need for a good price. Bob I had come across the Adams and low website in my search for bog oak, I wonder how much a plank costs! Didn't know Timberline had any, I will have to remember that for the future. Don't suppose you know of any supplier for quartered laburnum? Well I'm off to look at bandsaws... Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

Author:	wtholmwood [ Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
I have been up to see Bob at Timberline a couple of times now, and bought some great stuff from him. He's a really nice guy. Helped me out a lot selecting stuff. He seems to be a bit cheaper than David Dyke as well. I bought a billet of Spanish cedar, enough to make 3-4 neck blanks plus infinite braces, linings, end blocks etc. for about £40 as I remember. Half the price of buying individual blanks. Excellent quarter-sawn straight grained stock. I know you are looking for native stock, but just to give you an idea.. Also, I don't know a lot about bandsaws or what kind you are looking for, but if you are after a small (bench top type) one, I would really recommend the Record Power BS250, I bought one second hand and its a really solid little machine. Really reliable, unlike a lot of bench top models. Also its British made and parts seem to be quite cheap. However, if you are looking for a 'proper', man-sized one, I dont really know what to suggest as I am a long way off from being able to afford any big machines.

Author:	Bob Matthews [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
ntredwell wrote: Don't suppose you know of any supplier for quartered laburnum? I have some laburnum here, mainly fretboard sizes, what do you need it for? Drop me a pm with your sizes and I'll see if I can help. Bob

Author:	ntredwell [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
wtholmwood - Thanks for the recommendation, though i'm looking for something slightly larger and am quite interested in the METABO BAS317G which has more power and a greater cutting depth. I would ideally like to be able to resaw fret boards veneers etc and possibly 3 piece backs / sides etc though at 1.25 hp it may not be quite up to the task but we shall see... Bob - Have pm'd

Author:	jonwallace [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
I'm watching with interest. I've built 2 guitars using mainly native UK timbers - used Euro spruce for tops and braces. I've used English Cherry, Walnut and Sycamore for backs/sides/necks, Lime for blocks and linings and Bog Oak for fingerboards and bridges. The Bog Oak for fingerboards has worked quite well, but mine had deeper grain than the usual alternatives and was a little brittle. Anyway, good luck and please post some pictures. Jon

Author:	jonwallace [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Might be a bit late now, but I think I've got a spare full-size print-out of the Grellier OO plan (and the OM too) that I can pop in the post if you're interested. Jon

Author:	ntredwell [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Jon thanks for the offer, but have access to wide format printer at work so have already printed them out. Do you have any pics of you'd guitars, I would l I've to see. Should get some more pics up over weekend, as I finally make some progress with the build. Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

Author:	Frank Cousins [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
ntredwell wrote: wtholmwood - Thanks for the recommendation, though i'm looking for something slightly larger and am quite interested in the METABO BAS317G which has more power and a greater cutting depth. I would ideally like to be able to resaw fret boards veneers etc and possibly 3 piece backs / sides etc though at 1.25 hp it may not be quite up to the task but we shall see... Bob - Have pm'd Hi Let me know if you decide on the Metabo - I am also looking to get a band saw - max budget around £450, but know little about them - so all advice wecome seems quite alot of choice in that price range s confusing.

Author:	ntredwell [ Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Frank I decided to go for the metabo, and it was delivered yesterday. So far looks great, I have set it up, but needs some tuning and a better blade the only thing with it is the stand has a large footprint, but I am planning on making a base box for it to solve the problem. I'll let you know how I get on. Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

Author:	ntredwell [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Nick's native timber 00
Haven't had a chance to update on progress for a while, so here goes, have managed to make reasonable progress, and so far everything is still going to plan. Got the heal block glued on to neck blank Reduced the back using hand planes and a scraper to final thickness or 2.5mm and roughly cut out . Glued on the back joint reinforcement strip (Soundboard off cut) and quickly made a a radius sanding block to radius the back strip uniformly. Glued up some of the back off cuts to use for the rosette, and then cut this out using my new shop made circle cutter, was slightly apprehensive using this at first, but worked really well. I then glued up black/pear/black purflings to the cherry wood centre ready for installing. I then reduced the soundboard to final thickness which was so easy to do with a really sharp hand plane and scraper, so much easier than on the Cherry. Managed to cut the rosette channels and install the rosette and plane flush. The rosette is nearly perfect, other than one bit where its to wide, really annoying, not sure if I'm going to try and fix this or leave be. here you can see the area that is not quite perfect! Bending Iron finished, Im really happy with this, it heads up nice and quickly and only cost me about £30 in parts.